See if you have the options — it’s in settings, discussion, and then check the “enable nested comments” box if you have it.

So we’re all agreed: living in a civilization on the rise is better, especially if you’re one of the ascending. I was actually hoping somebody would tell me differently. (And yes, I’m using the hated comment-within-comment to reply. I need a template more suited to conversation.)

Decline breeds conflict, and conflict breeds stories. :-) I really have nothing to add to that. From a completely fictional perspective, yes, the descent would be better. Very good point.

Nothing is so clear as when we see it over our shoulders, eh?

Still, interesting answer. :) You seem like an interesting person. I’ll have to see if I can come up with an interesting question for you. ;) Hardy har har. :)

Here’s a few more reasons..

* No reminiscing over the ‘Good Ole Days.’ If you lived during the descent of a civilization then you’d be constantly reminded of the luxuries you no longer have. Remember the pre-cell phone days? Now nearly all of our population can’t imagine life without them. Same thing with the Internet. Yeah, and you know what? The “good ol’ days” weren’t so perfect. Some things were better, some weren’t. We just tend to remember the good things more, I think.

* Longer life expectancy — just think, soap was a seemingly small discovery that was the biggest factor in increasing the life expectancy at that time. More discoveries = better living (well, ok… that’s a generalization) And I’m starting to think that longer life expectancy isn’t really that big of a deal. The animal part of my brain tells me to squeeze every minute out of this Earth that I can, but my inner being says it’s more about how we live than how long.

*Hard work is valued. Think about all the robber barons and rags to riches stories from previous generations. Most of the time they were from common stock and made a name for themselves with hard work or cunning ingenuity. You don’t have the appreciation for hard work or the concept of where money comes right now and only the affluent families will be minimally impacted in the descent of a civilization.

I’ll have to pick up that book from the library and try to get it read. Don’t bother. It’s not that incredible. In fact, I’ve been skipping pages, something I never do. I’m really missing my pre-baby reading time. I’ve been trying to read Robin Hobbs’ Shaman Crossing for the last month. I’m only 300 pages in but it’s a good read so far. Plus, it’s part of a trilogy.

Ok, I think I’m done :)

And I, for one, believe the perception may be the most important, if not the only factor in all this.

I think it’s easy to distinguish which state you’re in: ascent or descent. History tells us what happened before and our hope and prospects for the future tell us where we are going. I look at the world my parents grew up in and compare to my own and then I look at what I think the world will be like for the next generation. (I’m pissing my pants right now.) You’re funny. I see your example as the ebb and flow that every society experiences over time, not necessarily the ascent or descent of the civilization itself. Take Oklahoma for example. We have been in a state of decay since about the early 80s, as far as I can remember. The roads were terrible, very little new commercial building, schools lagged behind the rest of the nation. That decay caused a backlash, we got tired of it, and we’re now working harder than ever to solve those problems, and it’s actually working. We’re now going through a big revitalization. Ebb and flow.

I think an obvious avenue to explore for any civilization to determine directional state would be archictecture/infrastructure. Is it constantly improving? Is it getting worse? Or is it simply remaining unchanged? In the 1970s, the western culture was still introducing “the world’s tallest ______.” That’s not happening anymore. Right now, I’m not even sure what the world’s tallest _______ is. Is it still the CN Tower? Or did that comm. tower in Russia eventually surpass it? Was something built in Dubai to rival it? If so, I would not be surprised. I’m sure that could be settled with a quick Google search, but my point remains the same. It’s no longer common knowledge. When I grew up, I was always being told about the tallest this and the tallest that. What’s happened to that sense of bragging about ourselves? Maybe, during the descent, culture loses the ability to brag about itself as it’s got nothing left to brag about. Now that is a scary thought. Are we on the way out as a civilization? I’d like to think that we are like water, and though we may change over time, we’ll never be gone.